The Pennsylvania Bee Law

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So, welcome to tonight's webinar about the Pennsylvania Bee Law.

This webinar is being recorded and will be available to watch, for some time, a year or so after this, is completed.

If at any time you have a question, please put it in the chat.

We will look at the chat after the presentation, so it's not going to interrupt us and we won't stop to answer questions, but we'll do so at the end.

I'm Robin Underwood.

I am Penn State's Extension Educator of Apiculture, and I have with me tonight, Mark Gingrich, the president of the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association.

And we're gonna start with, some comments from Mark, and then I'll take over.

So, go ahead Mark.

[MARK GINGRICH] Okay.

So, I'll read the, statements.

We put it on the slide so that you can read along, or if, if at some point, you know, you, you're on mute or driving or whatever, shouldn't say driving, but it's, I think there's value in reading along, so I'll just read with it.

So welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us.

One of the most eye-opening takeaways from introducing this proposed Senate Bill 1198 to the broader beekeeping community was realizing how many beekeepers are unfamiliar with the current law that we have in place.

Much of the conversation unfolded predictably across social media, where a hand voice, handful of voices tried to steer the tone.

What ultimately emerged was strong, constructive feedback, and a clear need for education.

Sb 1198, as supported by the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association, is a forward-looking measure designed to protect both plant health and pollinators in Pennsylvania, and to equip the state with the tools needed to respond quickly to emerging threats.

Today's webinar will walk you through the 1994 law that currently governs beekeeping in Pennsylvania, because you'll see many of the provisions people found concerning in the new proposal are already part of the existing law.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Oh.

[MARK GINGRICH] Oh.

Hmm, I'll give you a quick overview of SB 1198, the Plant and Pollinator Protection Act.

Sb 1198 is a proposed piece of legislation aiming to replace or significantly amend existing apiary law in Pennsylvania.

The new act is designed to modernize the legal framework governing both plant health and pollinator protection, integrating bee management more deeply into state-level agricultural pest control policy.

Psba, the, and the Pennsylvania Department of Ag and the Apiary Advisory Board have worked on this for the last 10 years pluch, plus, and much more intensely the last 24 months.

There are some key themes and details.

Hmm.

What was traditionally the expectation was to be inspected every couple years.

So, that's just beyond what the department can do.

So, the new law kind of takes us to a risk-based inspection system.

It and its companion bill, HB, which is the House Bill 2609, moves towards a risk-based system allowing the department, Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, to prioritize inspections based on the likelihood of disease or pest transmission.

So, that kind of breaks down to if there's a thought that there is, American foulbrood somewhere, it allows the department to check that particular area and the surrounding areas around that, that location.

Hmm, adaptive language from emerging threats.

One of the most Oh, one of the most controversial aspects of SB 1198 is its intentionally vague language, which some critics saw as a flaw.

However, this vagueness is meant to give PDA regulatory flexibility, especially for responding to emerging threats like triple O or triple-A lapse mites, which have been confirmed in Ukraine and will undoubtedly spread internationally.

This bill's flexibility would allow the state to act quickly without requiring new new legislation for each threat.

Bear in mind that spotted lanternfly is something that the state just faced just a few years ago, and there were a lot of hurdles that they had to jump through to be able to manage that, that, that invasion.

Hmm.

Municipal conflict.

Sb 1198 has specific language that should help resolve conflicts with municipal zoning and restrictions that impact beekeeping.

It's one of the things I spent a ton of time on, is going back to the municipalities who have created some little caveat that prohibits beekeeping.

This language, this new bill will help us make it more seamless.

Hmm.

ongoing clarification.

We recognize that the regulatory framework under SB 1198 is still in development.

As a result, the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association is committed to keeping members informed as new rules and interpretations are published by PDA.

We've pledged to post these updates on our website and communicate them through future newsletters.

Our website, we do our best to keep that up, and every time there's something that's, that's happening, we try to put it up there or communicate that through the news and notes section of the, of our newsletter.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Okay.

Thanks, Mark, for setting this up.

So setting the tone for the webinar, I'm gonna take over now and go over the history of the bee law and the current law, and then we'll come back to the proposed changes.

So the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association and the PA Department of Ag have been working together for a really long time, well over 100 years.

And it was in fact the beekeepers who asked for the first bee law.

I'm gonna go over, a little bit about the bee laws in 1911, 1921, and of course 1994.

And it seems that there was something in 1905, but we couldn't get our hands on a copy.

But just bear in mind, over 115 years of bee law in our state.

So we found documents such as this one that, give us some clues about the past.

And the first bee law, as you can see here, 1911, really was about American foulbrood, and the beekeepers needed help.

They were struggling to control foulbrood on their own, and so they needed the government intervention, which provided for the inspection of apiaries and for the suppression of the contagious infection diseases among bees.

Really, they were referring to American and European foulbrood.

Of course, we all know American foulbrood is the real major threat.

So, in 1910, the, an officer of the PSBA named Mr. Seltzer, came to the government in a meeting and asked very kindly, "Please, can you help us?

We, would like to have, a law on the books that sets, you know, a leader of this group." Here, they were, at the time, the state entomologist and the inspectors who were sort of already doing this on their own, but making it really part of the Department of Ag.

So they passed this law to make a, a a figurehead for the group and a set of inspectors.

Then, it became clear that the way they were keeping bees at the time was not amenable to inspections, right?

It was not the law as it is now to have movable frames.

So within 10 years, they were like, "We need to change this law because of American foulbrood outbreaks, and we have to require everyone to use movable frame hives." So, that was the major update in 1921, and you can see at the bottom of this document, it lists the State Chief Apiary Advisor.

So the name of this position that our Karen Rockaseka has now has been changing over the years.

So then came varroa and tracheal mites, and, it became clear that it, you know, we needed more So the 1994 bee law was revised from the previous laws in response to that, in, in response to tracheal mites and varroa mites.

I hope you've seen a copy of this law.

To in my opinion, every single introductory beekeeping class should be telling you about the bee law when they're handing you the paper that says, "You must register with the state." But what this looks like is first it starts with, of course, the title and then goes through definitions.

So as this law and the proposed new law is, the definitions written here may not actually be your definition for a word, but it is the definition for every time this word is used in a law.

So keep that in mind when you're reading, any law, to read the definitions.

Like, of course you know what an apiary is, but maybe it's defined in a little different way, in a document.

So of course, it begins with these necessary headings, defines lots of different keywords, and then it moves on, to establish the position of the state apiarist and the inspection program strictly as part of the Bureau of Plant Industry.

I, I wanna take a pause here.

What I'm showing you on each of the, the upcoming slides is at the top is a screenshot of a section of the bee law exactly as written from the document, and then I put under that sort of plain text to help you understand what the legalese mean.

And unfortunately, unlike most of my webinars, there's barely any pictures, so enjoy these beautiful inspectors while you can because the rest is all text.

I'm really sorry (laughs)

So here we have our current, inspectors as of today.

We have seven of them, and on the far left, we have our state apiarist, Karen Rockaseka.

And these guys are doing a great job.

They're working really hard to keep us safe from things like American foulbrood.

The 1994 law, which again is the one that we are under right now, gives authority, the Department of Ag to establish quarantines.

And if you read through the definitions, you're gonna see a very strange definition of bee disease.

It's really vague.

In the current bee law, it says, "Any American or European foulbrood, sac brood, bee paralysis, or other disease or abnormal condition of eggs, larval, pupal, or adult stages of the honeybee." That's extremely vague.

Notice it doesn't talk about parasites or pathogens or anything, but they all do fall under this, quote, bee disease definition for this law.Then It goes on to make registration of apiaries mandatory.

So this is the fact that each and every one of you, if you have beehives and an apiary, you must be registered with the state.

And it gives information about the requirements for the registration.

(coughs)

It sets the fees.

So the fees were set in law, right?

So that's why the fees have not changed since 1994.

The current fee for being a registered beekeeper is $10 and that lasts for up to two years.

And the reason it's not always two years is because they always expire on December 31st.

So if you register as a beekeeper in November, you get one month plus one year, if you know what I'm saying.

So it sets the, the date and the amount of that.

Now, it's 2025 now, so $10 for two years of registration is pennies.

It's a very, very small amount.

So one of the things that the new bee law will do is sort of update that to be a little more current with the needs of the department.

But still please keep in mind that it is not going to pay for your apiary, your state apiarist, and your inspectors.

Not even close.

Again, along with registration, we have to make sure that we're keeping our apiary locations up-to-date.

So if you have a new apiary, you need to let Karen know.

Update it in the PA Plants website.

If it's just temporary, you're just, like, setting hives somewhere for a couple weeks and then moving it, you don't have to let them know.

But if you have a new apiary location, you should be updating your registration.

And if you eliminate one, you should you know, update that as well.

The law as I said before, establishes the inspection program, and it differentiates a regular beekeeper from someone who is a queen producer.

So the need to inspect queen producers is much greater than anyone else, because they're distributing bees.

And they currently, use this also to include nuc producers, right?

So it doesn't specifically say that in the 1994 law, but it is being interpreted as queen and nuc producers.

And the point is, we don't really want people distributing diseased bees, right?

It' so this is for the safety of the industry.

(clears throat)

So here is the section about, quote, diseases.

And it currently says all apiaries should be inspected.

And if you heard Mark earlier, he was saying it's impossible for the inspectors to get to everyone, so this is something that needs to be changed, because they cannot get to everyone.

There's too many beekeepers and not enough inspectors.

So those words needs to change.

It establishes the fact that the apiary owner will be notified if disease is found.

So whatever the inspector finds, comes through in a document.

And perhaps some treatment advice or at least saying that you need to treat.

And of course as you know how the things have been going for beekeeping in this state, certainly they're going to be very strict about you really can't just let American foulbrood go.

But I don't think any inspector has ever insisted that someone treat for varroa mites.

So it's on a case by case, quote, disease by disease basis, what their advice may be.

And the apiary owner will get a copy of that inspection record from when the inspector was there.

It goes on further to say, "If you have not treated for this disease within two weeks, you, your apiary is considered a public nuisance and may be destroyed." This in fact was in place already back in 1921, because remember, American foulbrood cannot be ignored, and so this was in the law to encourage people to take care of it and stop the spread of American foulbrood.

(coughs)

It has some prohibitions in it, so it is illegal to possess colonies that are diseased, and it's illegal to distribute colonies that are diseased.

So we can't be spreading around infectious diseases to all the bees in our state.

Of course, as you knew from the earlier law, you must keep your bees in hives with movable frames.

That is required by law.

And if you have hives that do not have movable frames, technically that's a public nuisance and those hives can be seized or destroyed by the inspection program.

I don't know anyone who' has ever had that happen.

So it's all about, you know, the importance of following through, or if the inspector deems that it is not a threat, right?

So it's, it's, sometimes a little bit vague.

In the 1994 law and right now, the apiary inspector and the, state apiarist have free access to your you're not allowed to deny an authorized agent to come onto your property.

So this has been in place for a very long time.

(clears throat)

They must be granted access to your apiaries and your equipment that you're storing so they can do their job of doing their inspecting.

And Karen wanted me to emphasize that they really don't want to go onto your property without your, your consent, so they're always going to be contacting you first, trying to set up a meeting.

They don't want to have to do that unless, of course, there's some absolute emergency.

So really, they're...

You know, you're...

If you're a registered beekeeper, they're going to be calling you and setting up an appointment and if they see bees and there's no registered apiary, that would be a time when they can go ahead and go up to those bees and and inspect them if they so desire and feel that it's necessary.

Again, this is in the 1994 law.

If you're moving bees around the state, transporting them from one apiary to another, you have to have an inspection certificate.

So that's something that you have to work through with your inspector if you want to be transporting them.

In fact, I just noticed it says, "Into PA," right?

So within Pennsylvania you can do what you want without an inspection, but if you're crossing state lines, everything changes.

So make sure if you're planning to, say, bring bees to New York for goldenrod or bring in bees from New York or whatever that you're getting the proper inspections of your bees before they leave the state and the other bees before they come into the state.

We're not really allowed to import bees from any other countries except Canada according to this law.

And then, of course, it's a law so it sets forth the penalties.

What if you disobey, right?

There's fines and violations and first, second, and third, whatever.

There's civil penalties and then there's procedures about having a hearing and an appeal and things like that.

I haven't known anyone to go through this process.

I've been doing this for quite some time.

And then there's more procedures about violation of the law.

They really like to set forth, you know, all of these things in the law.

The law also talks about what the funds that are being collected with the registration fees can be used for, also what the fines and civil penalties are going to go toward.

Believe me, we're not getting rich on this.

It's a drop in the bucket for the price of, you know, paying inspectors and the state apiarist.

So that's the law.

That's the whole entire thing, right?

We just saw every single piece of the current bee law that we are under right now.

What happens after a law is passed?

Sometimes you need further clarification through a regulation and the 1994 law has one regulation and it's about bee shipments.

So that is... sets forth the rules for, shipping bees.

So you have to give notice when bees are entering the state.

You have to have the equipment marked in a certain way which you would have to read on here 'cause I didn't memorize it.

I think it has to have, like, your name and contact information on it.

If they find unidentified bees and equipment, they have the right to destroy it.

And packaged bees, which we're all very familiar with, are exempt from this, but they have a certificate of inspection from their source.

So if you're buying packages from Georgia, they were...

They have a certificate of inspection from Georgia and they're allowed to cross state lines, without, this notification.

Okay, so let's summarize our current bee law that was enacted in 1994 and is still, in place.

It establishes the state apiarist and the inspectoring program.

It gives as- authority to establish quarantines, direct necessary treatment for disease, and destroy colonies if they become a public nuisance.

The inspectors have free access to apiaries and equipment, facilities right now.

It is mandatory to register with the state and there is a set fee.

That is $10 for up to two years.

The colonies must be kept in hives with movable frames, and, that's the basics.

So Karen wanted everyone to know that really, as a department, they're really just trying to have laws, regulations, and policies that are there to help us.

They're not our enemies.

They're trying to keep bees healthy, keep the industry successful, and we know that it's frustrating to have, like, vague wording in these documents, but really, it is should be helpful to deal with future problems, things that we may not have thought of or things that we're proactively working to prevent such as the spread of tropilaelaps mites and yellow-legged hornets.

So when you read SB 1198, I hope now that you're gonna see that a lot of the wording is really very similar to what it was in the 1994 law, but the effort put forth in that is to actually make it more clear.It Should've been more clear.

And you know, more spelled out, and that's why it's longer.

There's more words, clearly.

So maybe you've read this SB-1198 yourself to see what has changed and I just want you to know that it did not move in the last legislative session.

It went to the Ag committee of the Senate and the House and never moved forward.

So nothing is happening right now in the legislature with this current, bill.

Because, there were so many comments after it was released, those are being taken into account.

So we are working, the Apiary Advisory Board is working with the Department of Ag to make, many of the suggested changes and the bill will then be reintroduced at some point when it is ready.

Notice that that's vague.

We don't know when that's gonna be.

It's already June, so clearly not the spring session.

We're not sure when that's going to be.

So just to review again, the new proposed law combines plants and pollinators.

It retains all the things we talked about tonight.

So all the, the summary, you know, you still have to register, you have to have movable frame hives, et cetera.

That is all in there.

It also expands, lots of the definitions and explanations to be less vague, and it includes other managed pollinators.

So honeybees are not the only managed pollinators.

There's also bumblebees and mason bees and things like that, so they also fall into this law.

And we need this new law so there's more flexibility in response to new pests and issues as they come to us, such as yellow-legged hornets and tropi mites.

It's, as Mark had said, hopefully will allow for targeted inspections based on risk rather than expecting everyone to get inspected every year, which is unrealistic.

The fees will increase.

There were some amounts proposed in SB-1198 that may or may not remain.

Even the tiered structure may become a flat fee.

We don't really know, what's gonna happen with that.

We're excited to have local municipalities, notifying PDA when they're changing their code so that we can stay on top of where beekeeping is allowed in our state.

And remember, once the law is in place, then the regulations can come forward and have the more specific information.

For example, perhaps American foulbrood will become what they call a reportable disease.

That's something that could be in a regulation in the future a couple of years after the law is in place.

This is a very long timeline, so keep that in mind.

And, really, this is my last slide.

So please keep in mind, we don't know the timeline.

We really don't.

And also, everything is subject to change.

So there's gonna be updates to what you read, already read as SB-1198.

There's gonna be a new version of that.

And then once it gets to the House and Senate, they can ask for lots of changes.

So, nothing is set in stone at this point.

And all I can say is, keep watching the Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association and their website and read their newsletters so that you can get updates as they come forward.

I'd also like to invite you to share your comments, and questions.

I created a Google Form that, is gonna go to me and to Mark, so that we can track, how, what you're thinking.

What are your comments?

What are your questions?

What we'd like to do is create, a, a frequently asked questions document so that people can go there first And, and answer their own questions.

And then, also the comments, hopefully they'll be constructive and, help to shape the, the law as it is being rewritten as we speak.

So with that, I'm going to, stop sharing my screen and Mark And I are both gonna be here to answer questions.

It's just us, so I'm gonna do my best to be looking into the chat.

And just so you know, the chat document is going to be lumped with the information from the Google Form as whatever your comments were.

Yes.

[MARK GINGRICH] All right.

So I'll, I'll, I've been trying to keep track of some of these.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Okay.

[MARK GINGRICH] So there was a question, "Why can't the bee law be separate from, the bee law?" So that was one of the primary, asks of PSBA this last go-around, was to separate the language, - [ROBYN UNDERWOOD] For the bees and the plants.

[MARK GINGRICH] Correct.

So, so the language... we have not heard back from the department what their legal department wants to do, whether it will be two companion laws or a single document that is distinctly different.

But it was our, our ask, to separate that language so that it's very clear from a pollinator standpoint, and a plant standpoint.

We are housed under plant industry, so that's the reason that we're, we're combined, or the language is combined.

Instead of trying to make two separate bills, because we're we're kind of codependent in many different areas.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So, I'd like to answer a question.

Somebody asked me, well, they asked, do we have numbers of actual American foulbrood infections in, within the state?

So, I just talked to Karen earlier today, and she said before the inspection program, there would be thousands and thousands of cases, and now there's, like, maybe 10 a year.

So, the inspection program really does a good job of just, like, squishing that infection, taking care of it, and very closely monitoring colonies within a certain radius around them for several years in a row, just to make sure that it's gone.

So that's been key to that low number.

[MARK GINGRICH] There was, a, a question here.

So there was some indication in some of the social media posts that the department hasn't really, you know, enforced the law.

You know, what would make them choose to do different?

And the answer to that question is, I don't think there's anything going to be different moving forward.

And the analogy that, that was used is that the posted speed limit on a highway is 55.

So, an officer of the law can stop you for speeding at 56.

That is such a rare occasion that it, it normally doesn't happen.

That doesn't mean that the, the department today cannot enforce a whole list of, of, of laws or, or penalties that aren't necessarily on the books.

One of the problems with the bee law that we have now is it's super vague.

That doesn't mean they cannot come onto your property.

They certainly can.

And there's fines and things that they can imply that just aren't written in our, in our current bee law.

The new bee law is very specific, and it's being interpreted as, you know, very punitive.

That's not necessarily the case.

It's the same thing that's in place now.

It's just defined and written out.

(clears throat)

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So, someone asked about if they're gonna have to register if they keep bees that are not honeybees, and I believe the answer is yes.

[MARK GINGRICH] And there is an advantage to that, because...

And there was a, a message here, a question here too, about, notifications.

So, if the state or someone is applying herbicides or pesticides that fall into the hypersensitive area, they are required to notify the department that then will in turn notify beekeepers.

So, being registered will give you that advantage of getting that notification if somebody's in, applying a pesticide in a hypersensitive area.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So, I, I just wanna refer back.

I just read the question again about the mason bees and things.

I would like to, look into that further.

They're asking, like, if they're not selling them, do they still have to register?

I think I'd like to think about what that answer would be a little bit more.

And I would, suggest that you, Robert, read the SB 1198 and see how you interpret it.

[MARK GINGRICH] There's a question here, do we have numbers of actual AFB infections within the state?

And I think, if I remember, there were six or seven last year, and that is typically...

Our numbers are somewhere between five and 10 per year, across the state.

And it's vary, it varies from, from, from year to year.

Almost always, additional colonies, once a single colony is located, other colonies are, are noticed in a radius.

I think the typical protocol is once, a case is confirmed, I can't remember if it's two miles or three-mile radius that the inspectors will then go find those beekeepers that are registered.

Again, that's one of those advantages of being registered.

If you're in that area and aren't registered, you won't have that advantage of, of the state notifying you.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Right.

A lot of people, are asking to read SB 1198 and whatever, HR, whatever that one is, 1277, and links have been provided.

Thank you everyone who did that.

Searching online to find those.

Am I correct, Mark, that these both stopped in committee and have not been introduced to the larger Senate or the House?

[MARK GINGRICH] So, I think the House bill was reintroduced this spring, but is, to, to the best of my knowledge, it's still sitting in committee.

I think that my understanding is that it will likely be changed, withdrawn, and resubmitted as a companion bill, just like the SB 1198.

That's my understanding.

But you can go read that document now.

There's, again, links provided, but that isn't really what I think the Senate bill will look like again, because they're, we, we anticipate changes coming, after our last Apiary Advisory Board Meeting, which was in October or first week of November, I think.

Or, we were in spring.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] March.

March.

[MARK GINGRICH] March.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Yeah.

So, someone said, "Why can't the bee law be separate from plants?" Yes, we have asked for that.

We'll see how separate they become.

They may just be sections of the same law, but in their opinion, there's a lot in common, so it's more efficient to have them together.

But we have absolutely brought that forward, and they hear us and are gonna try.

So, please know that.

- [MARK GINGRICH] There's a question here.

It says, "With increased fees sounds like a roadblock to new beekeepers entering the the hobby or ignoring the law altogether." We anticipate that the registration fee will go from $5 per year or $10 per two-year period to around $30 per year.

If you fast-forward from 1994 when that fee structure was set until today, you're essentially somewhere around three pounds of honey, is what that registration will cost you.

So $30 in today's day and age, I don't think that prevents any hobbyist from entering into the, into the, into the hobby.

I That's my perspective.

If, if $30 is the deciding factor as to whether you could keep bees or not, it probably isn't the right hobby.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] - Jim asked, "The copy of the bill from last year is the only one available as of today?" And yes, that is correct.

We don't have...

We've discussed what we want to change.

We have not seen those changes yet.

So yes, that's the only thing you can look at.

The 1994 law that's in place, and the ones that are in Ag committees.

Those are the only ones.

Yeah.

[MARK GINGRICH] I'm looking at er, 11, or House Bill 1277 and don't see any Republican sponsors.

Any suggestions as to why?

So both bills, SB 1198 and, 1277 were introduced by Democrats.

There has been zero bipartisan support.

That isn't a political statement, it's just a matter of fact.

I don't know that I can answer that, and I do think that that was probably the largest hindrance of this moving forward, because it never got any bipartisan support.

I believe it wound up being somewhat of a political football.

So, and I don't really foresee it moving forward until there is some sort of bipartisan support.

(clears throat)

So I don't have an answer to that other than you're correct.

It no, no one supported it from the other side.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Right.

So someone asked, "What if you know a beekeeper who has hives and has not registered them?

Who do you notify?" I would probably start by kindly, talking to them and letting them know they need to register.

Maybe you could print out the form and be like, "Here.

Send this in with your really cheap check for $10." So that if this does pass you don't have to pay the new fee until yours expires 'cause you'll be grandfathered in.

And if it's bothering you and you think they're doing something harmful, look up who the inspector is and let them know.

I mean, I, I'm not telling you to tattle But if you think that, you know, they're...

there's a hive there languishing and it might have American foulbrood And it's a concern and, you know, call them.

And just say, "I'm concerned about my neighbors not doing what they're supposed to do with their bees." And that person won't get in trouble, right?

They will be maybe called by the inspector, visited, and told, "You need to register and here's the form." And, that's likely as far as it's gonna go.

[MARK GINGRICH] Okay, here's one.

It says, "If a swarm takes up residence on your property and takes up permanent but not managed, is the property owner required to remove them?

And if so, what is the timeline?" The initial unveiling of this bill had some reference to a swarm.

Eh, I'm, I'm 99% sure that that language has been removed and if it hasn't we intend, or we anticipate that it will.

The entire thought process around the swarm reporting was the ability...

It gave the ability the state... for the state to track invasive species like triple, tropies.

So we, the state, believe that it's not if, it's when tropie arrives.

So there is estimates that that's, you know, in the eight to 10 year category.

Maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't.

But what's important here is that the law allows the state to manage that if that occurs.

So the short answer to that question is no.

If a if a... as the law will be proposed you're not required to manage those, feral colonies.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Mark, someone is asking about if they live in a county that borders a neighboring state, will the states cooperate with each other to set a quarantine?

[MARK GINGRICH] Yeah.

Karen routinely is in contact with all of our neighboring states.

She has a very good working relationship, with all of our bordering states.

So the answer to that is yes.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Excellent.

[MARK GINGRICH] There's a, a, a pretty long question here about probable cause.

(clears throat)

So I'll read it.

"the current text of the bill gives the department inspectors the ability to obtain a search warrant upon reasonable suspicion that a pest exists on the premises.

It says that probable cause shall exist if the department has reasonable suspicion that a violation has occurred.

For example, reasonable suspicion is a very low legal standard.

Is there any concern that this broad power can be be used or abused to access people's property?" That's a great question, and here's the simple answer.

The department already has today that exact ability.

It's just not defined.

So, so the current law is a little bit more specific but it's already been the law, part of the law, and the state inspectors already have that ability.

And since 1994 I don't think you'll find a record of that happening.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So there's a devil's advocate here.

Practically speaking, if the new law doesn't go through, can we get along without it?

What are the most serious issues that might develop without a new law?

[MARK GINGRICH] So, that's an interesting thing, too.

The, the, the new law is very specific.

One of the things that that occurred with spotted lanternfly is that the state a-allowed a lot of, pesticides through under an emergency statute to control, or attempt to control, spotted lanternfly.

It happens when it's done under emergency status like that, there's not a lot of, testing that's done.

The law is more specific.

And I think that it encourages, it gives...

First of all, we run the risk if we don't generate enough revenue that, that, that the state continues the inspection process or program.

So, hmm, at the current fee structure, the the, the, the registration only generates about $28,000, total.

So we are, the Apiary Division, is one of the only departments in the state that's left that doesn't generate enough to support its division.

So we have seven state inspectors and a state apiarist.

So, $28,000 barely makes a dent into what they do.

So, we're funded out of the general assembly, and we have no real expectation that that will continue.

So, what, what part of this fee f-fee increase does is it helps ensure that the, the, th-that the department continues to exist.

And I think you'll It's hard to find someone who will argue that the state inspection system isn't important.

I mean, it protects beekeepers large and small against a lot of things that would decimate our industry.

Here's one.

It says, "$30 is a wax-dipped commercial deep nowadays." You know, I don't want to make light of $30, but, but, but if you look at the increase from 1994 to today, I don't think $30 is unreasonable.

Hmm, I just don't.

We had bantered around lots of different, you know, tiered structures where backyard beekeepers would pay some fee, hmm, commercial beekeepers would pay a different.

I think that we generally have agreed that a single number is the easiest way to do that.

And, hmm, the $30 may change because whatever we submit is subject to change through the legislator.

So the legislation may increase that or decrease that.

This is just our best recommendation as a stakeholder in this, in this discussion.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] There's a question about things about honey, wax, propolis, all that stuff.

None of that is addressed in the bee law, right?

Like, the labeling requirements of honey, all of that, is not in this law.

It's in a different place.

[MARK GINGRICH] Here's one.

It says, "Who should register a club apiary where multiple beekeepers have hives?

Just the club or each beekeeper?" I'm not sure if I know the answer to that.

I guess my best guess would be the club.

I think that what the state's interested in is just a responsible party.

So, if someone is in, is managing the club or, or...

I think that would be sufficient.

Hmm.

So, "Will there be any requirements to destroy hives due to excessive disease?" That language isn't any different in the new law versus the old law.

Pennsylvania allows, with the guidance of the department, to treat a colony that is found with AFB.

I think there's a protocol in place.

I don't think that that changes with the new law.

There's not a forced eradication.

It's been my experience that almost every beekeeper who has experienced that, for their own good and the good of beekeepers around them, choose to destroy their colony.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Mark, though, that could occur in regulation if we felt that it was necessary.

If the Department of Ag thought it was necessary, they could write a regulation requiring that it be reported and destroyed.

But that's like way, way down the line if something like that is deemed necessary.

The law isn't gonna say that.

Right?

That might, could occur in regulation, but not in the law.

[MARK GINGRICH] So here's one.

It's, it's, it's interesting.

This one says, "Look at the Department of Ag's, what the Department of Ag is doing to Amos Miller.

They don't need more power." That's an interesting comment.

So everything that applied to Amos Miller applies to our current Pennsylvania Bee Law.

The new law defines that and, to some degree, restricts that access.

Pa...

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Several people are asking about protections for beekeepers, notification about pesticides.

None of that is in this law as far as I know.

Is that right, Mark?

[MARK GINGRICH] Correct.

And the notification comes from the pesticide side.

Here's one that says, "The current pesticide regulations only require notice to beekeepers within 500 feet." That's that hypersensitivity area.

And that comes from the, the pesticide side, not the apiary side.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] So the answer is no, we're not discussing that because it's not part of this law.

[MARK GINGRICH] Correct.

So as a person who's been involved with this for years now, we have, we have talked about this ad nauseum from every possible perspective.

It's really, really challenging to, trying to craft language that covers every conceivable situation.

So could you sit back and pick apart something about this bee law that you might not be 100% in favor of?

Maybe.

But I'm confident that 99% of this is, is, is, is written to a point that it protects the, backyard beekeepers' interest, it protects the industry as a whole, it protects commercial beekeepers, it's, it's, "We have had conflicting around PSBA supporting this bill initially." Yeah, So we have heard conflicting information of on PSBA whether we support this bill.

At December, posting on the website, "PSBA is currently not supporting or opposing the act," and tonight, we heard the state would be discussing the bill as supported by PSBA.

Can you, we get clarification, on where PSBA stands?

So, so the answer to that question is simple.

So after this was introduced, we chose to take a, a, a neutral position, because there were things within the law that we wanted to see changed.

So we took a neutral position until those things occur.

Those things included separating the plant and pollinator side.

We took the swarm part of it out.

We asked the department to simplify and streamline the language.

So if those things occur, PSBA will support that language, or that proposed, bill.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Somebody asked about labeling equipment again.

So, Mark, in the law, your hives need to be marked with your name and contact information.

I think that was only in relation to moving across state lines.

[MARK GINGRICH] If I remember that that was specific to import/export.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Right.

It's not like every one of us has to have every hive marked with our name and phone number.

[MARK GINGRICH] Yeah.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] I certainly don't.

So I, maybe I'm breaking the law, but I don't think so, 'cause I don't move across state lines.

[MARK GINGRICH] And we had done, we, in our case, we use ear tags, and I think that a, a simple number notification, as long as it's documented for, for intrastate movement.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Well, it seems that we've reached the end of the, the chat questions.

And so I would encourage everyone...

Oh, of course, here they come in.

(laughs)

I would encourage everyone to use the, the Google Form, to give us further thoughts.

Also, you know, we are listening.

We are, you know, always discussing, trying to improve.

We would like you to be protected as much as possible.

And the bees.

Of course we want healthy bees.

Okay.

So Mark, let's look at these last questions that came in.

But I'm gonna encourage everyone from here on, to send us your questions in a different way, rather than in the chat right now.

So.

[MARK GINGRICH] So here's one I'll, I'll address.

"a 600% increase in the fee may not affect commercial or sideline, liners, but the backyard to the backyard beekeeper, it's a significant amount.

I think you remarked that the hobbyist beekeeper can't handle this extra fee, maybe they should look at a different hobby.

It makes me think I should talk to my state rep or senator about supporting this." So the fee is $30.

So the 600% increase, if that's accurate, would be the, essentially the same increase of what you paid for equipment in 1994 when that fee was established.

It's $30.

I think that And I respect the fact that that's, that's a, a, a significant amount of money to you, but when you're paying 125 plus dollars for a package of bees, I'm not certain that $30 is, a significant part of that investment into beekeeping.

An inspector.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding that it's $30 per hive.

It's not $30 per hive.

It's $30 per beekeeper.

No differently than the fee structure today.

So you're paying $10 every two years per beekeeper.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Someone asked, "Can the inspector detain my records?" I'm not sure what that question means.

And someone's bringing out the idea that the penalties amounts have also increased.

I think all of this is just, like, updating you know, from the 30 years ago to current day things.

And again, Mark, have you ever known anyone to have paid any of these?

[MARK GINGRICH] I have not.

I think that the, the punitive, civil civil penalties are taken from other existing laws.So, It's what the department is, is used across the board.

So, I think I would agree with that.

It's an update to what the penalties used to be.

No, it's not, it's not limited to this particular law.

It's, it's the same fee structure, penalty structure that most of the, the legislation or proposed legislation or passed legislation has gone to in the last 10 years.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Yeah.

And Mark just put in the fee structure that is in the current version of the proposed law.

That is all subject to change.

It could change before it goes back to the Senate and House.

It could also change once it's at the Senate and/or the House.

So, those numbers are just a starting point.

We don't know what's gonna happen to them.

It could turn into a flat fee for everyone, it could go higher, it could go lower.

We have really no idea.

That was just a place to start the conversation with the legislature.

[MARK GINGRICH] Does the state view backyard beekeepers as an asset to be encouraged?

The Pennsylvania State Beekeepers Association supports beekeeping at, at every level, whether it's a backyard, a hobbyist, or a commercial operation.

We support everyone's right and ability to keep bees.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] I, I don't think we could possibly speak for the government.

That's too vague of a question about whether the government respects beekeepers.

But I do feel that, everyone that we've ever talked to about beekeeping has been very, very supportive, no matter who they are, at what level up the chain.

I mean, it's clear that honeybees matter and, we all like food, so we need our pollinators.

And I, I don't feel like it's a political issue in any way.

I think honeybees are valued by, quote, "The government," but I wouldn't know who to ask okay, we're at one minute till 8:00, so we're gonna end the webinar.

Please know this is not the end of the discussion and this is not the end of the information.

Things are constantly changing.

This is a long timeline.

And, just keep watching for more information.

And also, I would encourage everyone to make sure that new beekeepers understand the law, because it applies to them the minute they start becoming a beekeeper.

So, also remember that this is recorded.

You can share it with anyone you like.

You can watch it at a club meeting.

You can watch it during a introductory course.

This will be free online, probably in about a week.

Okay?

So, - [MARK GINGRICH] And I [ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Thank you, Mark, for coming on.

Go ahead.

[MARK GINGRICH] Yeah.

And I'll last my, So, I try to write, in the, the Pennsylvania newsletter, PSBA newsletter, the News and Notes section, I try to write, updates as we get them.

And, and bear in mind, all of the things that we discussed are subject to change as this moves through the legislative process.

So, I will try to update you as much as I can when those things happen.

I appreciate your, everyone's participation.

[ROBYN UNDERWOOD] Thank you so much.